Grown and Growing Podcast
Welcome to Grown and Growing — your favorite podcast for women who know that life in your 40s (and beyond) is just getting started! This is your safe, relatable space where we talk about it all: relationships, kids, health, career, sex, travel, and everything in between.
Join two vibrant, unapologetic Black women as we share fun, candid conversations about navigating life’s ups and downs while owning every stage of our growth. Think of us as your girlfriends who keep it real, laugh hard, and remind you that you’re never too grown to keep growing.
Grown and Growing Podcast
80. The Weight of What If: How Regret Transforms Us
In this episode, Sonia and Roberta delve into the complex emotions surrounding regret. They explore how regret differs from disappointment and how it can serve as a catalyst for personal growth. Drawing on a Harvard study and shared experiences, they discuss common regrets, and the lessons learned from them. They remind us that regret isn’t the end of the story—it’s just a sign that we’re still learning, still healing, and still growing.
What Roberta is drinking: té Pā Sauvignon Blanc Marlborough 2022
Find it on: vinboheme.com
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Sonia (00:11)
Welcome back to the Grown and Growing podcast. I'm Sonia Hey y'all. Roberta, you know what time it is. What's on the menu tonight? What are we drinking?
Roberta (00:14)
And I'm Roberta. Hey, hey.
All right. Tonight
we are drinking Te Pah Sauvignon Blanc from the Marlboro region. So from Down Under. Yes. So.
Sonia (00:26)
Okay. From who?
okay. Thank you. I need
you need to use country names, Australia. Yeah. Okay.
Roberta (00:40)
so this
is not your typical Sauvignon Blanc from that region. It's really good. It's really rounded, a little bit more like medium bodied compared to your typical Sauvignon Blanc. But anyway, we have it on our sites. What?
Sonia (00:53)
I'm blinking because I don't know
what rounded means. I don't know what full body. mean, I know we look, there's a podcast episode where Roberta's on with her business partner and she's giving me wine 101 lessons because I don't drink wine. I'm not familiar with it. And her, her partner take me through all the ins and outs of wine as a beginner. And clearly I need to revisit that myself because round big body. don't know if you're talking about a Benz you talking about.
Roberta (00:57)
all right.
Good.
Big body.
Sonia (01:23)
Wait, what did you say?
Roberta (01:24)
This is a big back wine. So wait, OK, so I'll just say that statement that I made is as far as like it not being your typical Sauvignon Blanc. So typical Sauvignon Blancs are kind of grassy, vegetal. And some people like like that, like highly mineral, light bodied, kind of like a thin like in your mouth. This one is a little bit fuller. like
Sonia (01:28)
What does all that mean? What does it mean?
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (01:50)
heavier, thicker in your mouth, pause, and it's not like a super grassy, it's not super grassy like your typical Sauvignon Blancs, but it's more versatile, I think.
Sonia (01:53)
okay
Okay, and what do you pair that with? If you pair it with anything.
Roberta (02:08)
This one, so yeah, I like this one because you can have it like on its own or it will go well with seafood. Like I really like this one. This is a good one. Like if you if you're a person who likes alborino, you'll like this one.
Sonia (02:20)
Great. That's not me. I don't like wine, alboreño, and I also don't like seafood. So therefore, but it's okay. Where do we get it from? Where do we get it?
Roberta (02:23)
We're
well. Yes,
this one is on my site, vinboheme.com. And actually we just did some spring close out, so we just put this one on sale too, so we're having a sale.
Sonia (02:35)
Okay.
So yes, you are having a sale.
Is the decor on sale too or is it just the wine? Okay. Okay, thanks. Yeah, picnic season. I need, yes, I need to go. Okay, vinboheme.com great.
Roberta (02:45)
It is, both. We have a lot of outdoor stuff too. Picnic season, get you wine, get you blankets.
Yes.
Sonia (02:57)
make sure you watch this episode on Spotify, on YouTube. don't forget to leave us a review. We really want to hear from you guys. if you like the podcast, you join us, on a regular basis and you talk back to the screen or you talking in your kitchen back to us.
Roberta (03:12)
arguing with me telling me I'm wrong.
Sonia (03:13)
Alright.
telling me I'm wrong, telling
me that you don't know any Mean Girls or you know all Mean Girls, leave us a review. We love to hear from you. it helps people find the podcast. Watch on YouTube, watch on Spotify. anywhere you find podcasts, will find growing and growing. So there, I did it. Please and thank you. Now we're going to talk about what we're talking about this episode
Roberta (03:31)
Please and thank you.
Sonia (03:37)
regret and before I go into why we chose this topic I want to start out with a little activity. Okay. Okay. So we love quotes here. We're always quoting somebody. So I wanted to read you two quotes about regret and you tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. Okay.
Roberta (03:45)
Okay, it makes me a little nervous, but I'm
Okay.
Sonia (04:02)
The first one is regret is insight that comes a day too late.
Roberta (04:08)
Hmm for me is more than a day a couple years too late takes me too long to realize it
Sonia (04:19)
Okay, so you agree with that? Like you agree with the sentiment that is insight that comes to you like, yeah, I mean, I agree if you are insightful enough to realize that there's an insight in that regret. So first you gotta realize there's one.
Roberta (04:23)
Yes.
Well, yeah. Well, yes,
if it's an insight you have in the moment, it's not a regret because you made a decision to not do whatever the thing is. And then if you never realize it, then it's never a regret.
Sonia (04:48)
Is that a quote? Because I was like, I need to ponder on that.
Roberta (04:51)
No. No.
Sonia (04:54)
A little bit.
All right, well here's the second one. Never regret anything that has made you smile. Agree or disagree?
Roberta (05:00)
Mmm.
I disagree with that one. Initially I agreed because I was like, yes, if it makes you smile, it's great. But then I quickly went to all the things that made me smile that were not good decisions. So bad.
Sonia (05:05)
Why?
You
Right, right. Like, ooh, this was so much fun, but also it was so bad. It was, I was a hot mess, but it was fun. Yeah,
I agree with you. Like, on the surface, if it made you happy, what could go wrong? What's wrong with it? A ton of stuff, a ton of things. So, all right, that ends our activity. Thank you, Roberta, for engaging with me on that. Have a sip.
Roberta (05:33)
Mmm, yes.
I liked it. Of course.
Sonia (05:48)
Have a sip.
Roberta (05:48)
All right,
so why did we choose this topic? For me, what made me think about it was, again, as we're grown and growing, life is getting shorter and there's less time to course correct and there's more time to look in reflection. And in doing that, I would say in the last five years, there's things that I look back on.
Sonia (05:59)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm
Roberta (06:13)
where the window has closed to make any significant changes and regret has started to start like settling in.
Sonia (06:17)
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Well, I've been, what, this is my third year doing this podcast, so I have wanted to talk about regret for a really long time because it's just one of those things that I think about often. Like, I'm just in a period in my life where I have enough life to reflect on with like wisdom and look back on it and like re-think about those decisions I made. So I think about it a lot. And I also used to have a really
Roberta (06:31)
Mmm.
Sonia (06:53)
contentious relationship with regret and just you know talking about it with somebody of how I have kind of worked my way or felt my way through regret it was just interesting to me and I you know everything that we talk about comes from a place of am I the only one like am I the only one who thinks about regret like this so I'm happy we're talking about this because yeah I've had a
Roberta (07:11)
Hmmmm
Sonia (07:20)
a very interesting relationship with it.
Roberta (07:23)
Okay, so you would say that you think you've become more or less regretful with age then?
Sonia (07:30)
Mmm.
I think that it's hard to say, okay? Because part of me would say I've become less regretful about things, because I look back on the mistakes I've made, the things that I felt really bad about, that I was really regretful about.
And a lot of them, the bigger ones, right? Because I think we have little regrets. I feel like I have regrets every day or during the week. You know, there's regrets. But the bigger things that I regret, I have come to a place in my head, and this is either good or bad, where I have come to terms with them, right? I have...
decided that because I've made those mistakes, I was able to learn X, Y, Z. And therefore, I don't see those regrets as harmful as they once were because I feel like I grew or I learned a very valuable lesson through it. And so, you know, I don't look back on it as let me go back and redo it kind of thing.
Roberta (08:40)
Right. Yeah, no, I agree with that. There's a lot more of my rear view. So I do think that when I look back, there's more opportunity for judgment and regret. So to that extent, I would say, yes, I do have more regret as I age. But I don't know. And this also gets into what's normal, what's typical, what an average person like, you know, and so without really like digging into all of that.
Sonia (08:45)
Mm-hmm
Right.
Yeah.
Roberta (09:04)
Short answer would be, yeah, I do regret more.
Sonia (09:07)
You
regret more. Oh We'll get into
So, I wanted to also talk about,
some of the things that we as Americans generally regret. Like what do people generally regret? And I think we narrowed it down from all Americans to just women. And luckily for us, Harvard has a study, and they've actually been doing this study for decades, where they have been interviewing women in their 70s and 80s about the things that they regret. And they, think in 2021 or something like that, they released
Roberta (09:25)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Sonia (09:44)
some recent findings about what women tend to regret. And they're basically fell into four different categories. So first thing on the list, and this is in order of, you know, importance, I guess, or the amount of people. Worrying too much about the opinions of others, obsessing over physical appearance.
Roberta (09:56)
most regret to least regret.
Mm.
Sonia (10:07)
not accepting themselves, not allowing themselves to pursue their dreams. So those were the four. and it's interesting because there's also this book called, the regrets of the dying where this lady who is a, who is in like hospice care she interviews people who are dying and they tell her about her regrets and she narrowed it down to five. These regrets mirror
you know, the regrets that are on that list, except for the one about physical appearance. feel like that's one that is.
Roberta (10:36)
Right.
That's a very woman thing, but also like
reflection of the society we live in. Yeah.
Sonia (10:44)
Right, right.
Because how many times have you looked back at picture, wait, hold on. I'm asking the wrong person this. I was gonna say, how many times have you looked back at a picture from like five years or 10 years ago and you're like, wow, I thought I was fat then and I wasn't fat. I was not fat.
Roberta (10:52)
Yeah
right.
Sonia (11:05)
I'm sure we've all had that
moment like, I was not fat now. And it's like, dang, I should have been wearing the booty shorts. I should have been wearing the short skirts. But at the time I thought I was fat. And you're like, nah, you ain't know how bad it could get. So.
Roberta (11:12)
Yeah.
Right, right. think that less, I mean,
not with weight, but more so about like my hair or my skin or something like that. Yeah.
Sonia (11:26)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So I think the gist of this is what women in their 70s and 80s are telling us is get out here and live your life, okay? And pay no mind to the people in the peanut gallery. So I want us to talk about...
Roberta (11:38)
Right. Right.
Sonia (11:48)
how we personally deal with regret. And we're gonna start by talking about how do you know when you truly regret something versus when you feel guilt or feel disappointed about something. Because in thinking about this topic, I really thought about like, okay, regret is one thing and disappointment is another thing. They're not exactly the same.
Roberta (11:50)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (12:13)
And regret is more centered around failure to act differently. You were presented with a choice and you chose wrong. Or you chose in a way that impacted you in a negative way. And then just a...
Roberta (12:18)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Or it's not consistent
with what you're, where you are now.
Sonia (12:29)
Correct. And disappointment is really when something didn't meet your expectations, right? And the difference between the two is where you have control. Like regret is you had complete control over that decision and you feel like you fumbled.
Roberta (12:36)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (12:46)
Whereas
disappointment was you're disappointed, but you had no control over it. So, you know, that feels a little different How do you do you have you ever thought about the two? How do you deal with regret in your own life?
Roberta (13:02)
That's an interesting distinction. I've never really thought about it from that perspective. I think I've, you know, conflated the two and kind of like lump them into one thing. But for me, I know it's a regret when I fully realize that the thing can't be undone. Like there's no course correction to be had. There's a finality to it. Yeah. And so that's where it enters into the regret territory.
Sonia (13:04)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right, there's a finality to it. Okay.
Right,
I think for me, doesn't stem around the fact that it can't be undone, although I think that's part of it. For me, it is about the pain that I've either caused to someone else or to myself. And there is little I can do to, like...
Roberta (13:40)
Hmm.
Okay.
Sonia (13:49)
The consequences were high, the pain is high, and I just feel very badly about something that I did, right? Where I made a bad choice. When it comes to disappointment or guilt, I think for me,
Roberta (13:50)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (14:06)
There are times where I can feel disappointed in something and not feel responsible for it. Right? I could feel guilty about something, but not regret that I did that thing. Right? I can feel bad about something and don't regret my actions at all, where I don't regret what happened. I just, you know, it's something that happened. It is what it is. I feel a ways about it and then I just kind of move on. It's not something I really internalize at all. So yeah.
Roberta (14:10)
Yeah.
Right, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. So yeah, I would
say in the context of like my of everything in my life, I would say I've gone through way more disappointment than I have regrets. Way more. Yeah.
Sonia (14:41)
Hmm. Okay.
Do you see that as a positive thing or how do you, how do you look at that? Having said that. Okay.
Roberta (14:45)
I do, do, because
I weigh regrets as heavier. know, heavier on the negative side. Yeah.
Sonia (14:50)
Mm-hmm.
Okay,
okay, so So you don't regret the, you don't believe in little regrets like, dang, I shouldn't have ate cheese and I'm lactose, right? Like, okay.
Roberta (15:05)
Well, I mean, yes, I do think that that qualifies as a regret. mean, I have like daily
regrets of not getting to bed earlier and like spending too much time on Instagram. But it's but OK, so let's take those those kind of examples. Every single day, I have a new opportunity to not regret those things. But what do I do? I go to bed late and I'm on Instagram way longer. Like, so are they really regrets? You know, so it's like you have those kinds of things, but.
Sonia (15:13)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Right. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (15:35)
Like when we come to like big actual like capital R regrets, there's like not many.
Sonia (15:40)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, okay. So do you think it's possible to live without regret?
Roberta (15:49)
No, I don't think it's possible. think that regret and disappointment are just a natural part of life. They are paths and vessels for us to learn our life lessons, know, just as much as like happiness and joy and like all the other fulfilling things.
Sonia (15:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Roberta (16:12)
So I think it's just a part of life that needs to be accepted. And also I don't think it's just feasible or natural for people to move through life without making some bad decisions that will impact them.
Sonia (16:27)
Right. I feel like you're a psychopath if you don't have regrets. I mean, that may sound, don't take that the wrong way. I do mean that in the best of ways. But you might be, cause think about it. Think about what a psychopath is. Somebody who lacks empathy, remorse, guilt, right? Like they think they have this inflated sense of themselves. Like at the worst, you might be a psychopath.
Roberta (16:30)
Right, right, like...
my god.
in
Sonia (16:53)
At best, you might be a little delusional, right? If you don't, if you don't, there's a lot of psychopaths walking around, but yeah, yes, I think I agree with you. I don't think it's possible to live with without regret. I think that you're setting yourself up for disappointment or you just have to go through life being delusional, right? Like, and like you said, part of having a fulfilling life or
Roberta (16:55)
Well, there's a lot of people like that walking around.
Yeah.
Sonia (17:21)
to have an interesting life is, know, mistakes bring the interest, right? If everything always went your way, how interesting would your life be? So the other reason I think you can't have a life of no regret or if you wanted to live a life of no regret, just not be going after your dreams at all. Like you have to play it safe. Like play it safe.
Roberta (17:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (17:46)
Don't piss anybody off. Make the safest decisions you can. Like what kind of life is that? Like that's how I feel like in order to live with no regret, then you kind of fall into two of those camps, so.
Roberta (17:51)
Right.
I agree. You know what, as we were talking about this, you know what I thought of? Remember that movie, We're the Millers? And the dude with the hair, and he was just like, no regrets, and he tattooed it, and it's the wrong... You know I'm talking about?
Sonia (18:07)
Yeah.
Roberta (18:44)
So anyway, that movie and that silliness aside, I guess my next question is, do you believe everything happens for a reason? You know, or is that to say something we say to ease regret?
Sonia (18:49)
Okay.
Does everything happen for a reason? So first of all, I've definitely told people that it is usually because I'm soothing them. don't know if it's because I believe it deeply. I think I would say yes and no. Yes, I believe it and also no, I don't believe it. I think you can say everything happens for a reason if you identify the reason.
Right? If you're one of those people who say, who you're like, if you can connect the dots and say, this happened. And then as a result, this happened, then this happened. now I see why this is happening. But there's a lot of things in the world that happen and there's no reason for it. There's no reason. And I do think that it is something you say to ease people's,
Roberta (19:29)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (19:52)
minds about something that has happened or something they've done because you do want them to be able to move on from it. You don't want them to think of it as a loss. Like you don't want people out here taking Ls so you say, know what? It happened for a reason. But sometimes things happen and I can't find a reason. I don't know. What do you?
Roberta (20:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, mean, I'm,
yes, I think a lot of people use or like try to make a story or a way just to kind of as a coping mechanism of like try to rationalize something that was just completely irrational. I do think a lot of that happens. But then also this taps into a little bit of my like spirituality and like I think we're all here. Our purpose as humans living.
Sonia (20:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (20:37)
these lives is to learn life and soul lessons and all the positive and negative emotions we experience put us in the right position to get there. And that involves bad decisions. Like we learn things from things going poorly. And so, and that lesson will...
Sonia (20:41)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Roberta (20:58)
get us to the next phase of life or it will help us evolve. And so I think all of that is purposeful. So do I believe everything happens for a reason? Ultimately, yes. We may not know what that reason is. It may not ever be intended for us to know what that reason is. I think we put too much weight on trying to find reason. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, Honestly, mean, this is a whole nother, this.
Sonia (21:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Okay.
Hmm
Really? Okay, yeah. I mean, you know what?
You're right about that, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I can see that. Because just in the way that I used to handle regret, I see what you mean by that. I see it doesn't have to be only focused on finding reason, but to make it make sense, right? To make it make sense to your...
Roberta (21:35)
Mm-hmm.
Right, to make it make sense. Everybody needs something, everything
to make sense.
Sonia (21:44)
to your human brain, you know. Yeah, it may not. But, so you've never used it to soothe anybody, just you believe that in your core Okay.
Roberta (21:46)
Right. And I may not, but...
It may not or may, but.
No, like that's one of those like toxic
positivity sayings, I think. Like, no, it's like, it all happens for a reason. Like, no, like.
Sonia (22:02)
It could lean toxic, yeah. Yeah. I think if
you sing it, then you don't mean it like you just did. Well, everything happens for a reason.
Roberta (22:09)
Everything's happened for
a reason. That's because that's if they say it like that, that means they ain't got nothing else to say. So they trying to comfort you.
Sonia (22:14)
That means it's time to hang up. It's
time to get off the phone. Chile
We've come to the part of the program where it's time to expose ourselves. Oh! And I know, you you said earlier that you have big R regrets, big R regrets. And I was just like, you know what? I do have big things that I regret and I've made peace with and da da da da da. But throughout the week, I was like, I'm gonna...
Roberta (22:25)
Time to get personal, right?
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (22:52)
just list out my regrets that I thought of, that I'm willing to share because look, this ain't no diary, so y'all ain't gonna know. I may have some regrets that I don't wanna talk about, but these are the ones that came to mind when I was thinking about this topic. So one, stopping my contribution to my 401k when I was doing the Dave Ramsey plan. When I think about regret, yo, that thing pop up first.
Roberta (22:55)
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm... Really?
Sonia (23:20)
Yes, it is the thing that pops up first for me because I I've shared before that we had this house that we lost in a short sale. We were part of the housing bubble or the housing crisis in 2008 and in coming out of it. Right. And people may ask, why isn't that your first regret buying a house you can't afford? Because
Roberta (23:23)
Hmm.
Sonia (23:45)
I think that I learned so much from that process. It was like the biggest financial lesson, the biggest lesson that I probably learned in my 30s, right? That put me on the path that I now, which I feel like I'm financially literate.
You know, I know what I'm doing now with my money, but yeah, I did Dave Ramsey. I was all in and I decided, and we had a lot of debt. had a lot of student loans. I had a credit card debt at the time and I was, you know, I bought into what he was saying and I stopped my 401k for like two years.
And when I tell you I regret that so much, said, I was like, I need to write him and tell him, stop telling people that at least tell people to do up to the match. Like, why wasn't I even like, you you can hear the regret. Yes.
Roberta (24:27)
Really.
Well, right. What is the regret?
Like what is it that you feel like you I mean I understand like lost like money and like retirement, but like what is it? There's I feel like there's something else there It's not just the money
Sonia (24:45)
Oh, it's the money. It's the money. It's the fact that I... Okay, okay, it's not solely the money. It is...
Roberta (24:51)
But not, okay, but not
doing, not being able to save in your retirement, you were able to put that money somewhere else which did benefit you and like help you. So it's not like you just didn't, you just like threw the money away. It did serve a purpose.
Sonia (25:07)
my goodness, I've never looked at it that way. That is true. I literally never looked at it that way. I've only ever, I've only ever saw it as a loss. You're right. It wasn't as if I was out here, know, living high on the hog. I was literally paying off debt. But I think I saw it as a failure and a waste because I didn't finish paying off my debt.
Roberta (25:19)
Really?
Yeah.
Sonia (25:34)
at the pace that Dave Ramsey would have wanted, or he said I should have done it. And so when I was like, you know what, this is some bull crap. I still got these big, you know, these big loan payments. What the heck did I stop my 401k for? I'm like, I'm about to start it again.
Roberta (25:38)
Mmm.
so you
threw the baby out with the bath water.
Sonia (25:53)
Sure, sure, okay. So, and then I feel like I'm always behind, right? And so I'm like, look man, I wanna retire. I would like to retire. Whether or not I stop working or not is beside the point. I do wanna retire and...
Roberta (25:58)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Sonia (26:10)
I'm like, I need that money to be there and I'm more conscious of it. And I'm like, if I feel like I don't have enough and honestly, I don't even know what I'm comparing it to. Like I actually, I do know, right? I'm comparing it. You do the math and you do the formulas and you're like, could do, could investing those two years, right? And those really important years when I was still young, right? In my early thirties, that's when I, you know, that money could have been compounded. I'm not going to keep talking about it. Okay.
Roberta (26:13)
Yeah.
Hmm.
I mean, but also,
look, listen, after this past week and the hit to the stock market, you would lost that money anyway. So girl, it's fine.
Sonia (26:46)
gonna go one day, but also Dave Ramsey people, don't be stopping your 401k. Keep the match, that's free money, that's all. Number two, paying what I paid for my Beyonce Cowboy Carter tickets, that was one of those instant regrets.
Roberta (27:02)
Hmm.
Girl, I don't know why anybody
pays that. I mean, I guess you value what you value and I value what I value. It's fine, but like, why y'all here spending that kind of money?
Sonia (27:13)
because
it was more money that I wanted to spend. I'm not sharing, don't ask. I'm not gonna tell you.
Roberta (27:20)
can only imagine,
like I'm not, this is not my like thing, but like I can only imagine.
Sonia (27:24)
Yeah, I love concerts. I mean, I've spent probably more than, well, definitely more than what you would spend on a concert, because you cheap. But I... I'm sorry, blame Dave Ramsey. It's Dave Ramsey's fault, I'm still feeling it. But I was pissed about the dynamic pricing and that whole debacle, so I feel duped. So that was one. There's one about putting myself in...
Roberta (27:33)
Catching strays out here like what?
Wait,
doesn't that happen every day with flights? Yeah.
Sonia (27:53)
What, dynamic pricing?
Sure. But with flights, it's like, you know, things change, right? Apartments are on dynamic pricing, right? You go one day with a... I'm saying seconds, okay? I go and by the time I find the ticket, put it in, the price that you said it was is double. And I've been to several Beyonce concerts, so I know what the price of the tickets used to be.
Roberta (28:03)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Sonia (28:21)
And I'm not talking about a long time ago. I'm talking about Renaissance, right? Those prices to me were reasonable. These were more than unreasonable. And I feel like it's greedy. feel like on dynamic pricing on top of ticket masters fees is ridiculous. They are out here getting away with high robbery and I want it to stop. Fine. Number three, putting myself in an uncomfortable situation with an ex and his new girl.
Roberta (28:29)
Got it.
Mm-hmm.
Fair.
Sonia (28:49)
I will always regret that. And it's not even about them, the ex and the girl, his new boo. It was, I put myself in a situation where I knew it was going to be uncomfortable to prove how strong I was, right? I was like, I'm strong. I don't care. I'm going to do it. Instead of giving myself. And I felt awful the whole time. And it was like a multi-day thing. It's like, girl, you are, you are not.
Roberta (28:54)
Yeah.
Mmm.
I vaguely remember
this. Yeah, because this is before, it happened before we knew each other, right?
Sonia (29:16)
Do you? Did I tell you?
I actually don't know.
Roberta (29:28)
Look, we're that old, we have that many years behind us.
Sonia (29:31)
I don't know what had happened. But anyway, I vowed to myself I would never do that again. I would allow myself to be bothered by things. It is okay to be bothered by things. I do not have to prove how strong I am. I am strong, right? And so there was a little bit of that. It was a little bit of like feeling like I needed to belong and I wanted to be with my friends and I wanted, cause we shared the same friend group. So it was like, but never again, child.
Roberta (29:37)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (30:00)
And then my last one, I'm sorry, this is, know. I wish I never quit my first blog. In 2009, I started a blog about pregnancy and I quit it after an argument with a friend and I wish I hadn't done that. So those are my regrets. I know you have, you know, some bigger regrets and that's like a mix of big and small, but those are the things that came to mind as I was thinking about it this week.
Roberta (30:08)
yeah.
Yeah, well,
first of all, I don't think you can categorize big, small. Like I did say like capital R regret, but I think that's a very personal definition. it's my big R is in comparison to all the other stuff that I'm disappointed about or regret. So but one thing that kind of struck me as you were talking here and as we've been having this conversation is like what categorizes what puts it in the regret bucket versus something else, a disappointment.
Sonia (30:36)
Right.
Mm-hmm
Roberta (30:55)
And the two things that are sticking out for me is, one is a decision or some course of action where you betrayed yourself. And in those moments, that's what really constitutes a regret. And you can look in either in that moment or soon thereafter or well after. But what you take away is that you betrayed whoever you were in that moment. Right.
Sonia (31:05)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yes, you betrayed your values, like
who you were, your morals. That's so good. Yeah. As a person, for sure.
Roberta (31:25)
Right.
And yes, so kind of park that one here too. The other thing that I've been thinking about and it also applies to the one big regret that I have is something you said just a couple of minutes ago was not making peace with the decision or whatever it was. I think that is a key point or key definition around regret. know, if you are not able to accept it or you haven't gotten there yet.
Sonia (31:30)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Roberta (31:53)
to accept or make peace with whatever that decision or lack of decision was, then yeah, this more likely to be a regret. So yeah, so I think kind of we can park those two things as far as like, so now we're gonna talk about like, how do you grow from regret? But before we get there, I'll share my like one big regret, which for me, it is not having a family and a very specific.
Sonia (31:53)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Yes.
Roberta (32:19)
family dynamic in that, you know, meeting my person, getting married, creating a physical life, a child with that person, either, you know, non-traditionally, traditionally cohabitating, living together, building a family unit. That is a huge regret that I have for my.
Sonia (32:19)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right. And I think you need to expand because you forgot the big thing, is because you mentioned building a family unit, also the kid part, right?
Roberta (32:42)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Right. That is like a big part of it. So yes, at this point in my life, I still could build a family unit, right? It might be a little bit non-traditional or something different than what I originally defined. But there is a key element of that, which is giving birth to a child. that is something that was always really, really very, important to me of being pregnant. And it was
Sonia (32:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (33:14)
and still sort of is very deeply tied to what I believe my purpose is as a woman. And if I'm here in this life, you know, this go round as a female and I have the capability to reproduce, I'm not living to my full purpose if I don't experience that. And it's something that I've always wanted. And it's something that I never took lightly in that, you know, if I was to
Sonia (33:19)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (33:43)
create life with someone, then this really had to be my person, my partner, and someone that I really felt like I wanted to combine, like literally down to like my DNA with and out of love, right? So out of like, I love this person so much that I want to see a physical, I want to create with my body, a physical manifestation of the two of us together. And it's a big regret that I never got to do that.
Sonia (33:45)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Mm-hmm
Mmm.
Right.
Roberta (34:13)
And there, there, can go through all the litany of different reasons why potentially that did not happen. both things inside my control and outside of my control, but at the end of the day, and also the investment I did into, into try to buy myself more time, literally, I went through the egg freezing process when I was between 40 and 42, I went through three rounds of egg freezing and spent a lot of money.
Sonia (34:24)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (34:41)
and a lot of time and a lot of just it was really hard on my body. And you know, I do still have and so the part about not making peace with it is because I haven't fully accepted it. I haven't fully given up hope because I still have these frozen eggs and it is still possible as long as I'm not actually in menopause. I could still go through IVF and it still could be possible. The likelihood is very, very, very, very low.
Sonia (34:45)
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (35:09)
but because of that, you know, and at any point I could just make the decision, you know what, it's not going to happen. And I could start that like healing process and the acceptance, but I haven't.
Sonia (35:15)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. It's interesting because, yeah, we've talked about...
you know, this desire a lot, right? And it's a huge thing, right? And you telling the story in the way that you just did, I'm like, I have so many questions, because we've dissected this a lot of different ways. But I guess my first question is, where do you think that desire has come from, right?
You build a family, you have a kid. Where did that desire come from to have it in, that very specific way? is it from your childhood? where do you feel like that comes from?
Roberta (36:01)
Honestly, I don't know. mean, people have told me that it's from societal pressure and being a woman in this country and we are conditioned to want to reproduce and all these things. I'm like, sure, that could be somewhere in there underlying. I really don't think that's it for me because I have never been pressured in that way from the environments I've been in. I'll just say that. I have not, I don't have...
Sonia (36:24)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (36:30)
Siblings, you know, I don't have other, you know, people, women. My mother has never not once, even though I was married at 23 and she had never not once, she was like, when are you gonna get, you know, have kids? Never. If anything, I think it was a little bit of the opposite. So it wasn't until I was probably early thirties that I even really wanted.
Sonia (36:31)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (36:55)
or felt the desire to have a kid. And a lot of that eye unpacked and therapy, I saw all the sacrifices that my mother made in being a mother. And I was like, I don't want that for me. I kind of subconsciously took that on.
Sonia (36:58)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I remember. And it was a factor.
It came up in your marriage, didn't it? Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (37:12)
yeah, yeah, yes, absolutely. It came up in my marriage because
when I, yes, so when we got married, and I'll keep this, I'll make it real short, but I was 23, he was close to 30. He definitely wanted children. And it was something where when I got married, I was like, okay, sure, you know, whatever. Like I just, weren't, I wasn't thinking about it. Cause I'm like, okay, yeah, of course you get married. Eventually you have kids.
Sonia (37:22)
You
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (37:37)
And then the more that I got into my thirties and into my career and like just my own life, I was like, Whoa, I don't know if that this is, you know, for me, what I later unpacked in therapy was just like, wanted a family. I wanted children, just not with this particular person. and it was something that clearly wasn't something I was conscious of or You know, I wouldn't have married him, but it was just something deep in me that I knew that this wasn't, you know, this is not.
Sonia (37:44)
Yeah.
Roberta (38:01)
the person that I want to create a life with. And so I don't know as, as I got older, you know, I dated with intention, I dated with, wanting to partner and to have a husband and for all different reasons, it did not work out. and yes, I don't, I don't know, I can't pinpoint like where I got this from. And I definitely don't know where it came from as far as
Sonia (38:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You don't think it could be
from your childhood? The fact that your dad passed away so young? It's you and your mom, like, I don't know. I mean, I thought that's what you were gonna say. You didn't say that, okay.
Roberta (38:35)
No, like, yeah, I've, no, I've, we, I've talked about all these things in therapy and like none of that is like any
kind of origin or reason for it. Like, yeah, my father passed when I was young. So it was never like, I want to recreate the family unit that I never had. It was never that, you know, I had a strong system of parents and family. And it wasn't until I was good into my thirties that it became more of a spiritual thing.
Sonia (38:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, right. okay. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Roberta (39:00)
that didn't even, when I made the decision in my mind and my heart, know, at early thirties, that really, I kind of want a family. It wasn't until probably maybe five years after that, that it became more of a spiritual thing and more about my purpose as a woman. That became stronger the older I
Sonia (39:01)
Yeah.
Right.
Interesting, because I'm asking because you know how I am. You know, I am a problem solver and as your friend, I'm like, well, if I break it down like this and this, Roberta, you could still, if you take away this part of the part, like in my mind, it's like, well, on the one hand, I feel like, well, is it really a regret if it...
Roberta (39:19)
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (39:39)
because it hasn't happened yet. And you said you haven't given up hope that it could happen, which is great. I think that's great because I am of the mind of like, being open to being able to adapt to the situations that you're given, right? We don't choose.
Roberta (39:58)
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (40:00)
the life, right? We can't choose what happens to us a lot of times, but you can choose the way you respond to it. And you know, sometimes, and this is going to sound very flippant and I don't want it to sound that way, but it's like, do you, if you can't have all of the dream, can you be happy with part of the dream? Right? Can you be happy with a different version of the dream? you know, like, so anyway.
Roberta (40:22)
And I've sat with that. I've sat with that for a couple of years and I had to
be really, really honest with myself and understanding the reasons why I want this thing and be honest with myself of like, what's going to make a difference. I don't want to say good enough, but like, what's really going to fill that hole for me, that need for me. And I've...
Sonia (40:46)
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (40:49)
thought about all types of different scenarios and like those, of the other scenarios come anywhere near the core desire that I have. Yeah.
Sonia (40:58)
Mm-hmm. It's interesting because I mean
just thinking about regrets in general and thinking about the way people process regrets and part of me is thinking that when people regret something have they made up a story or created a fictional narrative around
Roberta (41:10)
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (41:29)
the opposite thing, right? So whatever decision they made, the opposite of that has to be good. It has to be great. It has to be, yes, the alternative. Yes, the alternative or the better way, the other decision is inherently better. It's, you know, the sun, it's brighter, the grass is greener, and you're happier in that version of yourself. And I wonder if people do that when they think about regret, which makes the regret.
Roberta (41:32)
Mm-hmm.
the alternative or whatever they think that, yeah, was the right way, was the better way.
Sonia (41:58)
the choice seem worse because you have romanticized the other decision.
Roberta (42:01)
Right.
No, that
is a very interesting thing and actually something that I've talked about with my therapist as well. Because the reality is I will never know what that reality is. You know what I mean? Yes, there's a small chance that I could still possibly become a mother. I will never be a 35 year old, new mom. that's just physically impossible, right?
Sonia (42:09)
Ha ha
You never know.
Mm-hmm.
Right. Right.
Roberta (42:28)
and
I will never know what that life would have been compared to the life that I actually had for the last 10 years. And so it's a process of acceptance and where I'm starting is accepting that reality that I will never know the alternative. So I think it's process of accepting that I will never know the alternative meaning and so therefore,
Sonia (42:34)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (42:55)
I don't overhype it. don't make it more of a positive existence. I don't fantasize about the what ifs and the you I you know, so I'm I've gotten to that that point. Honestly, I've accomplished that of acceptance of like the thing that never will be and comparing my current life to a life that will never I will never know. But it's there still exists some it's still a desire that I have for where I am now and for the future.
Sonia (42:55)
Bye.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (43:26)
So yes, I stopped
living in the past, but it doesn't stop me from wanting for my current and future.
Sonia (43:30)
Right,
you know, and my unhelpful answer is to get a sperm donor, use them eggs, at least try and see what happens. But you know, that's me.
Roberta (43:34)
You
negates the whole like
wanting to create with that person of and and so, okay, okay, this is what I did. I don't know if I told you this. I, this is what I did a couple years ago. I think it was right before the pandemic. I approached three of my very good guy friends and I asked them to be a donor. Cause the one thing I knew already, I knew, for a fact that I was don't want a random, an unknown sperm donor.
Sonia (43:50)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Okay.
Roberta (44:10)
However,
I would be open to, and honestly, I never really wanted to be a single parent either, but things change and I gotta kinda change my parameters. And so I went to three male friends that I very much admire and respect. All three said no.
Sonia (44:16)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Were they dating? Were they married? Why did, okay, why'd they say no? Quickly. Yeah.
Roberta (44:32)
One was attached, so I understand that part, you know, but I approached it like I
knew who the wife, like I am also friends with the wife, so I'm like, I would only even ask this if it was like a three person decision.
Sonia (44:46)
That's
a lot, that's a lot for a marriage. Next, who the other guy? Girl, if you don't go away from me with this request, I'm just kidding. That's good. Yes, they're very mature, unlike me.
Roberta (44:54)
It was a consideration though. We did have an actual conversation and I respect them both for having that conversation. The other
two, the one he hadn't, and he still hasn't had a family or a child of his own and it's something that he wants. so he wanted to, similar to me, he wanted to pursue that and have his own family unit. And he didn't want this kind of alternative family. So respected, okay, that's that.
Sonia (45:10)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Right, okay, understood that.
Roberta (45:22)
And then the third person, he was very, very, all three were very like flattered that I even asked, which I'm like, thanks. But his kind of, not stipulation, but his kind of condition is that he would want to the parent or raise the child with me, like parent with me when I'm, I was fine with that of co-parenting, but he wanted it to be more like, okay, let's get married.
Sonia (45:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
sir. Wait.
Roberta (45:48)
And then I was like, I don't know if I want that, which made me reflect and say, like,
Sonia (45:48)
Wow. He was like, by the way, on. Yeah.
Roberta (45:56)
is this, know, my person? And so like, clearly.
Sonia (46:00)
Is he your
person, the third one?
Roberta (46:03)
Oof, that's a loaded question because...
Sonia (46:05)
Lord,
Lord, here we go. Is this the one where the times don't make? Okay, get out of here. Y'all get on my nerves, please. I'm gonna move on.
Roberta (46:08)
Yeah.
I never said this was not complicated. It's very complicated.
Sonia (46:19)
It
ain't, it's actually not complicated, but it's fine. It's cause y'all playing. I just don't, let's move on. We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it later, but I feel, but anyway, that's a, that's a huge thing. Yeah.
Roberta (46:24)
Ugh.
So, OK, so moving on. that that's a big regret.
That's a capital R regret. I'm yeah, I'm still working potentially, but I'm working through it.
Sonia (46:37)
Potentially, throughking through it. So let's talk about that. Do
you feel like you would ever make peace with it? And how do you make peace with your regrets if you do?
Roberta (46:51)
I'll just, I mean, I say that for myself. I don't know just generally broad for people, but for me, I have to make peace with this. I don't think I'll be able to live another knock on wood 40 years or whatever, still carrying this weight. I can't, because that energy will seep out into other parts of my life and I don't want it.
Sonia (46:54)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Jeff.
Roberta (47:16)
I don't want those kind of problems. And so I'm actively working one way or the other. Either I need to get an IVF like tomorrow or I need to start working on that acceptance. This is just not going to be a thing at all.
Sonia (47:18)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. It's, I mean, in that way, that to me is the complication, because it's like, it's not like you just go out and go, you know, I'm gonna get pregnant, y'all, right? Like, some people just, you look at them and they're like pregnant. It's not that, that's the complication of, I know. Yeah.
Roberta (47:48)
right
Well, that's the thing too. Like, I mean, I tell in all my business, but like I went through three rounds of egg freezing and I only
got 12 viable eggs. And I don't know if people know this, and this is be a whole episode in itself of like fertility and infertility, but they say if you're going to go through the process of IVF, you need to have at least 20 to 30 viable eggs for one baby. For one baby.
Sonia (47:59)
Mm-hmm
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Dang. For one baby.
I'd be like, put all these 12 eggs, but then you might be Octomom. Like, the chances of you being Octomom, that's not good. Okay.
Roberta (48:22)
It won't happen. It's very, very low. at the
highest chance you'll, you know, maybe have twins, but yeah, it's very low. And this is the whole thing. Like people aren't educated on this stuff, which just kills me, but.
Sonia (48:30)
Okay. So, no, I
just said OctoMom When you told me about going through the egg freezing and all of that money and all of that time and how it took a toll on your body to get to, I was very shocked at the 12 eggs. I was like, what? Right? We're still, Yeah. Yeah.
Roberta (48:53)
Well, because I did it when I was 40. Had I done it when
I was, here's the thing, here's the capitalism. Ideally, I probably should done it at 30. I probably would have got 20 to 30 eggs in one round, if not more. But this shit costs so much money in this country. costs about, with medication and the procedures and everything you have to go through, it can be anywhere between $12,000 to $16,000 per round.
Sonia (49:03)
huh.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
which is ridiculous, which is ridiculous. mean, it was, it's funny because my first knowledge of IVF and that process was when we graduated from grad school and we worked for, I worked for an ad agency that in, in DC, but they were headquartered in Boston. And my boss at the time, the only reason she had come to work at the company was because they pay for IVF.
Roberta (49:23)
Ridiculous.
Sonia (49:48)
because the company headquartered in Boston, Massachusetts has a law where I guess they pay for IVF. It's a part of their healthcare. They have free healthcare. Yes, really rare. That was my first kind of interaction knowledge of that process. And she had her one baby and actually he's, still keep in touch on social media. He's like.
Roberta (49:56)
That was really rare back then.
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (50:09)
I'm like, oh my God.
Roberta (50:10)
wow.
Sonia (50:11)
But yeah, that was the only reason. And while she had that baby she said, deuces. We never see her again. But yeah, that was my first experience with him. Yeah, our insurance.
Roberta (50:18)
But yeah, even insurance now only covers, want to say like one round and most people, is other things they don't
tell you is like you might need three or four rounds of IVF and IVF, you know, each round could even with insurance is still going to be over 10,000.
Sonia (50:36)
All right, I mean, yeah, it sounds like we need to have a whole, you need to drop some knowledge. I mean, we should have put that in our last episode in the 30s, right? We need that level of detail about infertility. But then I'm fed so much stuff on my social feeds about women over 40s having babies the most ever. This is the time where they've had it the most ever. I'm like, is that true? Like, yeah, okay.
Roberta (50:37)
Right. That's a whole nother episode. I learned so much. Right.
I personally don't think is natural. Like natural
births, like they're just naturally getting pregnant.
Sonia (51:02)
like,
yeah, but that, I mean, I read the articles because I'm not interested in getting pregnant at 40, but I was like, I have friends that are, right? That friends that are still interested in having children, you know, naturally, meaning they want to have their own and not through surrogate or adoption or things like that. But anyway, back to making peace with these regrets. I, you know, I...
Roberta (51:21)
Yes, making peace with the regrets.
Sonia (51:28)
Yes, I feel like making peace with your regrets is a process. It could either propel you, right? Propel you in a way that moves you forward in life in a positive way or a child, could keep you stuck. It's like you, it's a fork in the road. And it's like, you have to work through your regrets to...
Roberta (51:38)
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.
Sonia (51:49)
so that you can choose the path that will propel you. But I think the nature of.
at least the society that we live in comparison, perfection, like all of these things can keep you stuck. And I used to be the worst with regret. used to be the person who would beat myself up. I would, a lot of negativity, a lot of blame, a lot of like, it forced me to, you know, be more staunch in like, no, you got to get it together. You know, I was very hard on myself.
Roberta (52:23)
Hmm. Yeah.
Sonia (52:26)
And it really, surprisingly, didn't help.
more bad decisions, right? Like about the ex and this girl, going, know, putting myself in that really terrible position because I wanted to prove to myself that I was strong, right? I wanted to prove to myself that, you know, I am capable of withstanding and you won't break me kind of thing. It just propels me to make other bad decisions. And it's not until I go through the process of, like you said, acceptance, accepting
Roberta (52:37)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Sonia (53:02)
what happened, taking responsibility for it and holding myself accountable to what happened, but also moving past the blame, right? Moving past the point where I am, you know, belittling or...
Roberta (53:12)
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (53:19)
or punishing myself for making a bad decision. I am so much better at looking at something holistically in the grand scheme of things of my life and all the decisions that I've made.
Roberta (53:21)
Exactly.
Put it in context. Yes.
Sonia (53:34)
I am really big on making amends to the people I've hurt, right? Including myself, right? Because most of the bad decisions just don't hurt you. They probably hurt other people too who are in proximity to you. So just trying to be better at giving myself grace and being more kind to myself and processing. Okay, why did that thing?
Roberta (53:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Sonia (54:01)
happen and I'm going to use something that Oprah always says which is, you know, she my girl. Look for the lesson. Like what is the lesson in it? And that makes me feel a lot better about the regret and I can move from it, right? And maybe not regret. Yeah. And gives it a purpose and it prepares you on how to make a similar decision.
Roberta (54:10)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah, it gives it a purpose.
Sonia (54:29)
in your life in the future. Like how are you going to address a similar situation in the future? You can grow, you have the potential to grow from it. But yeah, I was the, I was the worst. I felt like I was the worst at processing cause I would just stew in it, ruminate the decision over and over and over again. And it just wasn't kind.
Roberta (54:31)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yep.
Well, that's the part I was saying about like
accepting that like whatever that world was, whatever that path might have looked like, it's just, you'll never know. And that's the part of the acceptance. The other thing too, I think from being able to grow from a regretful situation or from something you held as a regret is to look at the positive parts of it. So nothing, don't, like no decision, no, even a regret.
Sonia (54:55)
Yup. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (55:16)
can't be held in isolation. It's not gonna be just completely negative. Even in my, what I hold as my capital R regret, there's still some positive things out of there. So I look back on the last 10 years, even my life now, and I have a tremendous amount of freedom and agency over my life that I would have absolutely not have had if I had a kid or family.
Sonia (55:21)
Mm-hmm.
Right, Roberta, hush. Yes, I constantly have to remind you how good your life is. I'm like, girl, what are you saying?
Roberta (55:42)
I have a lot more freedom
Sonia (55:42)
What do mean?
Roberta (55:44)
of time, of my financial freedoms.
Sonia (55:47)
I'm
why would you bring a kid into our lives and ruin, ruin what we have, okay? I just want to live vicariously through you and I can't do that if you have a baby. Things are gonna change, yeah.
Roberta (55:51)
What will we have? Right, no girl, mean things in my
life as it is without a child or family are pretty good. I mean, yeah, like I said, like I have a lot of freedom. Also like, you know, where I am in life and if where I am right now, I'm not physically able to naturally get pregnant, I mean, that just means I ain't gotta use birth control.
Sonia (56:19)
I'm don't know. There's so many things popped up. I'm like, yeah, yeah, wait, no, yeah. I don't know, child, you know.
Roberta (56:21)
I'm like...
Ha!
So anyway, it's
not all bad. It's not a bad thing.
Sonia (56:32)
It
is not all bad. have a extremely, and this is not me saying everything happens for a reason. I'm definitely not saying that. I'm saying that, you know, for me, it's about perspective. And I am definitely of the mind that regret.
Roberta (56:39)
Yeah.
Sonia (56:51)
can often be redirection. could be like you, you know, how can I think about this thing differently? It allows you to be creative. And so I know you get on me about this all the time, but I don't think it's too late to do some things in your life, right? I don't think it's too late. Some things can't, right? Some things you just can't right okay? Some things can be too late, but this is where creativity comes into.
Roberta (57:07)
Hmm.
Things can be too late.
Sonia (57:19)
If you think about, if you boil it down to the feeling that you get having done that thing, what's an adjacent thing that you can do that brings you close to it, right? I can't promise you that you're going to win an Oscar, but can you, you know, work at the local theater and help somebody else Oscar dream come true? can you, like, there are ways to be able to capture some semblance of what you desire.
Roberta (57:37)
Mm-hmm.
Sonia (57:48)
without, know, to me it's not an all or nothing, right? If I don't have it in this specific way, then it's a waste. And it's like, no, I mean, would you rather own, you know, 100 % of a football team or is 3 % cool? I'm good with 3%. I don't need to own the whole team. Just give me part of it. And that's how I feel about going after what you want in life, right? A part of...
Roberta (57:54)
Yeah.
Sonia (58:17)
I'm like, joy is joy, right? Whether it's, you know, exactly what you thought. And sometimes people are surprised by exactly what made them happy and what gave them the most joy. And to me, if you're singularly focused on one thing, you are missing the opportunity to explore, to possibly have joy in a way that you've...
could never experience, right? It could be better than the thing that you thought you wanted. So, you know, I, yeah.
Roberta (58:45)
Right. Exactly. I agree.
I think so. we're talking about ways to grow from how do you take a potential regret and grow from it? Or how do you turn it around? Or how do you do it? that's one thing that I think and something for me that was kind of a, I don't know, smallish regret. In college, I went to William & Mary and they had for the business school, they had a
Sonia (58:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (59:12)
a program with Manchester University, I think, but it was basically an exchange program. So for a semester of business school, you would go to London and you would live. And so I did not even apply because I was terrified. I never left the country at that point. And I was just scared. And I was like, oh, it's going to cost too much money. I didn't even look into it. And later, after I graduated, I regretted that decision. I was like, I should have done it. But instead of beating myself up for it, I took that as a signal to what was important to me.
Sonia (59:15)
Mm-hmm. Great.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Roberta (59:40)
So
what I took away from that was that I really do have this desire to get out and explore the world and try something new and try something different. And so I leaned into travel and I did all sorts of new experiences because of that one thing that stuck out to me as a quote unquote regret. I was able to use that and it was a signal for me.
Sonia (59:47)
Mm-hmm
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And the part of the reason that you and I are even talking on this podcast is because I never got to see my pregnancy blogs with full fruition. It never fully developed. And I'm always wondered, what if, what if you would have stuck with that? I mean, that was in freaking 2009. blogs were not, you know, popping like that. It's like.
Roberta (1:00:11)
Mmm, mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Sonia (1:00:26)
You gave up on something because of something really stupid and you shouldn't have. And me, you know, obviously 10, 12 years later, you have an idea. I do not know where it's going to go, but you know what? I'm actually going to see it through. I'm not going to not do it. I'm going to do the podcast. I'm going to see it through. Yeah.
Roberta (1:00:45)
Well, would venture to say
that that happening, that experience of you starting the blog, stopping it, and then realizing, I wish I would have kept that thing, is what motivated you to do the podcast and to get you where you are now. And so if that thing had never happened, if you had never created the blog and stopped it, right, you wouldn't be doing this now. Because it wouldn't have been that much of a trigger for you to actually take action and do something. So I think it's all a benefit.
Sonia (1:01:01)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And spoiler
alert, I'm working on a blog related to this podcast. We are doing that. So, I will have a blog guys. I will have a blog. No, I'm just kidding. So last thing, like what are some, like the inverse of that? What are some things that you glad you did it because you knew you would regret it later? Like
Roberta (1:01:17)
Hey, nice. Yes.
Mm.
Mmm.
Sonia (1:01:35)
Those are also
things like I'm gonna use this feeling of regret. I know what regret feels like and I know if I don't do this thing, I'm gonna regret it. Do you have things like that?
Roberta (1:01:47)
yeah, first thing that comes to mind is skydiving.
Sonia (1:01:49)
Okay. Oof. Where did you skydive? Did you do it in America or did do it overseas? All right. Mm-hmm.
Roberta (1:01:52)
Right. I did. I was in Pennsylvania. So when I was living in Philly and
it was so random, it was like, I literally saw a Groupon. I was like, I'm going to buy this thing. And I went by myself and I jumped out of an airplane, which y'all need to understand. just, yeah.
Sonia (1:02:05)
Mm-hmm.
You went by yourself?
Wow, you so brave. Aw, see, this is what I mean, guys. Get you a Roberta. You ain't got to jump out the plane. Let Roberta do it and tell you how it was.
Roberta (1:02:15)
or crazy.
But also you have to understand like I am terrified of flying. I hate flying. I do it because I like to travel, but I'm terrified of flying. I'm not a fan of heights and like everything about this whole scenario was just the opposite of what I would ever want to do in life. But the thing came across, I saw it and I was like, you know what? If I don't do this, I'm going to regret it. And so I did it and I'm very happy I did it.
Sonia (1:02:26)
Mm-hmm.
us.
Roberta (1:02:46)
I think about it often as something that I, was something very fearless and that, especially at that time, I didn't do a lot of fearless things, like really like fearless things.
Sonia (1:02:46)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I had done that, which I haven't, and I don't know that I ever will, it's a sensation that I can...
I feel like I can have a very good life without having. But I do think if I thought about like how that would make me feel, I would feel like a bad ass. I'd be like, I'm brave. And I'm to go and present this. I'm scared to do this. Remember you jumped out the plane by yourself on a regular Saturday? I don't know if it was a Saturday, but yeah, that would, that would make me feel brave. That would be the thing that I tap into when I needed a little bit of, you know,
Roberta (1:03:20)
I don't even remember what day it was.
Sonia (1:03:28)
you know, I needed to borrow some courage. That's what I would tap into. So I don't have anything like that. Yes. So I don't have anything as daring as that, but the thing I look back on about things that I never regret are usually experiences. One is going to Dubai in 2013, right? It was about 11 months after Sienna was born.
Roberta (1:03:30)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I borrow that courage from myself often.
Sonia (1:03:54)
And I really wasn't in the space to travel. Like she was a baby. I was still, you know, navigating motherhood and trying to figure it out, trying to get my footing at work again, because it's almost like a year after she was born. And the opportunity came up because my friend was living in Dubai. She was like, you guys should come. Yeah. And I wasn't going to do it because responsible person, mothers, of
Roberta (1:04:08)
Hmm.
that's right. I forgot that.
Sonia (1:04:22)
you know, new toddlers or whatever, they don't do that. You have to stay with your baby. And I knew I would regret it if I didn't do it, but it did take pushing from Derrick to say, no, you're going. He basically like you getting on the plane. And I did, and I don't, I, was one of the best trips.
Roberta (1:04:33)
Hmm.
See, yeah.
Sonia (1:04:41)
Um,
and I'm glad I did it. Yes. the other thing is moving. in 2021. Um, I'm so glad I did move when I did. And it was very, it was the worst time to move. think people, I think looking back in hindsight, was people have come to realize it was the best time to move. at the time it was seen as a very bad time to move. Cause it was COVID. We were still in the throes of COVID.
Roberta (1:05:07)
That's right,
yeah.
Sonia (1:05:07)
Yeah,
was people, the houses were selling like hotcakes for this huge amount of asking price, these huge asking prices and quote unquote overpaying. mean, we still may, you know, my history with houses, child I don't know. But I, no, I've had good luck with houses. I'm not going to accept that Roberta. Thank you very much. But I moved when I did and I do not regret it one single time.
Roberta (1:05:23)
She's had bad luck with houses.
Sonia (1:05:37)
Not one single bit, I do not regret moving. And in fact, Derek was the one who didn't want to move. He was so anti-moving. And I was like, I'm over it. I said I would be in this house for seven years. It's year seven and we're out. And he routinely tells me that it was the best decision we made for our family. So yes, that's something that I'm glad I did because I knew I regret it. I would definitely regret it later. So.
Roberta (1:05:50)
wow, okay.
All right, so what are we gonna tell folks to do this week?
Sonia (1:06:06)
We did a lot.
All right, so my challenge is if you, have a regret or a what if hanging over your head.
What is that thing? You should do something small to move toward that thing. So if you've done something you regret or you have a what if, you should explore that and do one thing this week that'll take you closer to realizing that dream or that what if, fulfilling that what if.
Roberta (1:06:41)
Okay.
Sonia (1:06:42)
Do that guys, go think about it. Write
it down, tell somebody. it could be, it could be whatever, go research it. Ask Chad GPT to put the plan together for you related to that what if.
Roberta (1:06:53)
Right. So the goal here is to avoid
regret, right? Because you want to pursue the thing so that you're not regretting it later. Got it. All right. So mine is to take some time and think about what you don't want to regret in the future. So do a little like forward thinking imagine yourself five years from now and looking back and is there something that you
Sonia (1:06:57)
Yeah.
Correct. What's yours?
Roberta (1:07:17)
don't want to regret, right? And pursue that. Yeah, start moving in that direction.
Sonia (1:07:22)
Yeah, What would you do?
I'm like, what do I not wanna regret? It's probably around health and taking care of myself. Yeah. I need to get on it. I need to go get my, what was your sew-in? Your sew facelift? Your threaded facelift? Just kidding. Just kidding. Well, this was a fun discussion about...
Roberta (1:07:31)
Yeah,
yeah, the threading.
Yes.
It was fun considering,
you know, it's a heavy, potentially heavy topic. It was, it was very, yeah.
Sonia (1:07:51)
Yeah, it was cathartic. Yes,
so thank you guys for joining us for another episode and we'll see you next time.
Roberta (1:08:02)
Thanks
